Issue 1: Espionage As a Function of Gameplay

[General Powell]

ISSUE: Termination of all espionage activity among and between raider regions and defender organizations. This requires mutual removal of spies, sleeper cells, intelligence agents and all forms of clandestine, internal surveillance from the home and satellite/colony regions of raiders and defenders within 48 hours of adoption of this agreement by participating alliances.

[General Powell]

Delegate Martian Nation-States of DEN: Spying may continue in both regions, however, if a spy is captured and/or identified, the region identified as spying must refrain from raiding for 28 days or until the spy's nation has died. If there is nobody to point to (i.e. an anonymous spy), then no region may be punished unless SERIOUS evidence in brought against that region in a trial to be arbitrated by a representative from 3 raiding nations and 3 defender nations and an impartial member.

[General Powell]

Delegate Blackbird1 of the Proletarian Coalition and the RLA: Since it seems to have been agreed that each issue shall be taken one by one and not in its totality, I would say, not commenting on the Merits of the 4th above statement by Martian Nation-States, that American style arbitration is traditionally done by each party picking an arbitrator, and said two arbitrators agree on a nuetral third arbitrator, who arbitrates any hearing (without the first two doing anything but having picked the third).

[Chessalavakia]

I must reply here as Westwind and Blackbird Branyard Caveman (who isn't here) who all have spies in the Homeland know spying is a major part of the game. SO if invader spys that get caught are penalized then so should defenders. Therefore if this goes into action then Defenders must agree that for 28 days they lose all rights to defend or be defended. That demand is insane just like the no attacking demand. When I send spies in I send several at a time since I use a proxy I have no worries. IF this goes into action I will leave NS I am here to spy and plan not to play politics and screw all my fun. Others spies I have talked with share my feelings. To be honest the me you know has barely been on NS for 28 days. Think of the misuse this could have !

[Skywalker1]

I'm sorry all, but I have to agree. Politics is only half of the game. Attacking, and Spying the other half. I mean sure I can see the political side of things. I honestly like to get into a good political debate once in awhile. Though, I don't see why spying has to be pentalize for something we can't do unless you want to defend or attack. If we didn't have spying, how would you know who or when to attack or defend. Sure there are some umoral things that go on in spying, but that is part of the game. If you get caught, that is your fault and you are going to get banned from the region. Oh well, you move on.

Besides, this looks like it will benifit the defenders more than the invaders. 28 days is a long time to not be on NS. I think if you are caught spying that is something the paticular region bussiness, not are problem to decide. I mean just today, I rooted out a defender spy from my region and I banned him. Oh well I know for a fact he will have a new nation and will be back in a week or two.

So what I'm trying to say is, what is the big deal here?

[The Heights]

Any anti-espionage legislation would be very difficult to enforce. I agree that there ough to be some regulations on it, but the regulations should at least be equal between the defenders and the raiders.

[The Heights]

Delegate Chessalavakia:
Several points regarding the spy issue. Many people in intel send multiple spies in but only have one get on the forum. If you lose a spy that is no big deal you just send another. You should still be able to attack even if they catch one of your spies. Otherwise all ADN regions would put spies in that would act as spies for invader regions get caught. Then they could not be invaded by that group for about a month. That idea will accomplish nothing. I am starting to feel that I hoped too much would come out of this confrence...

[Chessalavakia]

What Regulations would be fair to both sides?

[The Heights]

I personally can't think of any as of now that would equally punish both sides. That would probably be a good topic to bring up at the next meeting while discussing this.

[Skywalker1]

I agree, I will be late to the next meeting, but I think that spying has it own set of rules to go by. It is only a matter of ethics and morals, just once in awhile you have to go lower than others.

[General Powell]

Let's keep in mind what we are talking about, delegates. Spying for military purposes is still authorized under the recommendations made during the first part of the GS Summit. What was recommended was a ban on espionage which seeks to disrupt or affect the internal politics of the target region (i.e., planting sleeper cells to gain political leadership in the target, circulation of false information designed to impair recruitment of new nations, etc..) This type of espionage serves absolutely no purpose other than to harm the target---whether that region be a defender, raider or neutral region.

The recommended limitations bind all sides equally; there is no language in the recommendation which suggests that it is limited to raiders only. Recall that the defender alliances present expressed their tentative acceptance of this limitation with the understanding that they too are so limited. It is difficult to enforce, but as Delegate Arfon of the EAA noted, "Just because something is difficult to enforce does not mean that is should not be enforced." This limitation on spying will actually help improve the game by requiring more stealth and better tactics to gain information in the target of the espionage. Don't downgrade the recommendation without at least giving it a chance to work, please. I respect your position on this issue, I would just ask that you give the recommendation time to develop and be implemented.

[Chessalavakia]

I would disagree getting Delegate helps your home region. With attitudes several defenders have about invaders it would seem that they do not care if they hurt invaders even if they hurt themselves. BTW ADN reps why aren't you active here?

[The Heights]

Not many defenders are here. I believe they are going to just attend the live Summit.

[Swabbia]

I agree that this would be very difficult to enforce because good spies don't get caught How about this:

Espionage agents, spies, sleeper cells and all forms of clandestine, internal surveillance from the home and satellite/colony regions of raiders and defenders, once caught with reasonable evidence, shall forfeit any Native status they have in thier resident region. The Regional Dlegate will telegram said nation informing it of the evidence against it. 48 hours will be given to refute this evidence. Should the nation be unable to show the evidence to be in error, the regional delegate may eject the nation. Simply opposing the regional delegate and/or his or her policies does not in and of its self constitute reasonable evidence.

I'm not sure if this is worded very well, but here's a base.