Global Summit Online Chat Transcript - May 16th

[General Powell]

Odracir (TITO): The General should be here soon.

Odracir (TITO): Just us four I think.

arfon (EAA): Is anyboday around yet?

Gamia (INDEP): That's why I'm here independently

Odracir (TITO): Hey arfon.

skywalker1: lol

skywalker1: invader.

Gamia (INDEP): Neither. Both....*sigh* Long story

arfon (EAA) joined the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1: I am.

Odracir (TITO): Are you guys defenders or invaders?

skywalker1 returned to the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1 left the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1: I think I should do that to.

Gamia (INDEP): I represent the Global Revolutionary Dominion, a small new neutral org

Gamia (INDEP): Independent. That's what the Heights wanted me to register as

Odracir (TITO): What does INDEP stand for?

skywalker1: I am currently an independent from the region Domination of the World

Gamia (INDEP): Skywalker, what org do you represent?

Odracir (TITO) joined the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1: good morining

Gamia (INDEP): Good morning

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Gamia (INDEP) joined the chat 2 hours ago

arfon left the chat 2 hours ago

arfon joined the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1 left the chat 4 hours ago

skywalker1 joined the chat 4 hours ago

Gen Powell (Co-Host) left the chat 15 hours ago

Gen Powell (Co-Host) cleared the chat 15 hours ago

[General Powell]

Odracir (TITO): Are you familiar with TITO?

skywalker1 (INDEP):

Gamia (INDEP):

Gamia (INDEP): Don't. We independent's can stick together in this room full of power players

Gamia (INDEP) joined the chat 116 minutes ago

skywalker1 (INDEP): I felt stupid being the only one in maroon.

Gamia (INDEP) left the chat 117 minutes ago

Odracir (TITO): We have alliances with Texas and Urbanites, and Grub (our founder) thinks that's enough.

Gamia (INDEP): Whoops

Gamia (INDEP) returned to the chat 117 minutes ago

Gamia (INDEP) left the chat 117 minutes ago

Gamia (INDEP): Y'know, the three of us being green is getting irritating. Be back

Odracir (TITO): Official or unofficial.

Gamia (INDEP): Understood

Odracir (TITO): No reason.

Gamia (INDEP): Any (public) reason for that?

arfon (EAA Delegate) returned to the chat 119 minutes ago

arfon (EAA Delegate) left the chat 119 minutes ago

Gamia (INDEP): I see

skywalker1 (INDEP): I've notice

Odracir (TITO): For now, we are not making formal alliances with other defenders.

Gamia (INDEP): That's the thing with invaders though, Sky. You don't need to be very big to casue a commotion

skywalker1 (INDEP): Oh well, I feel small since I'm the only invader here. lol

Gamia (INDEP): trashed*

Gamia (INDEP): You defenders would really do well just to sit down and coordinate. They'd get trahsed, methinks

Gamia (INDEP): Yeah, no kidding...

Odracir (TITO): It's in their best interests to be here.

Odracir (TITO): They'll be here.

skywalker1 (INDEP): true

Gamia (INDEP): Oh well. International politics can be a little too much this early in the morning

skywalker1 (INDEP): our co-hosts arn't even here yet. They broke the rule (To be early is to be ontime, to be ontime is to be late, to be late is to be left behind)

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Gamia (INDEP): Ah. Always bowing to them, don't we?

Odracir (TITO): When we get invaders here.

Gamia (INDEP): So when are we gonna get started here?

arfon (EAA) left the chat 2 hours ago

Gamia (INDEP): Yeah, I understand that feeling. Looks nice though

skywalker1 (INDEP): Its kind of new, Still sorting out the bugs.

arfon (EAA) joined the chat 2 hours ago

skywalker1 (INDEP): *(Classified at request of Delegation)*

Gamia (INDEP): What's your forum at, skywalker?

Gamia (INDEP): Heh. Good work

skywalker1 (INDEP): there changed it. lol

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[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Let's do this according to the format adopted, delegates.

Odracir (TITO): Go ahead.

Gamia (INDEP): I would like to make a comment on this, if I could

Odracir (TITO): And yet....

Gen Powell (Co-Host): As of the end of the last conference, the proposal was to ban all non-miltary espionage.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): ISSUE: Termination of all espionage activity among and between raider regions and defender organizations. This requires mutual removal of spies, sleeper cells, intelligence agents and all forms of clandestine, internal surveillance from the home and satellite/colony regions of raiders and defenders within 48 hours of adoption of this agreement by participating alliances.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Not a problem.

Odracir (TITO): Let's discuss the espionage issue if you don't mind.

skywalker1 (INDEP): np used to it

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Sorry for my tardiness. I was looking to see whether GEN Asgarn was going to stand in this morning.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Sorry about that. Computer problems.

Gen Powell (Co-Host) joined the chat 102 minutes ago

Odracir (TITO): General, would you like to introduce the first issue for today? How about the espionage one?

Gamia (INDEP): Sounds like a plan

skywalker1 (INDEP): I have a little less than that too.

Odracir (TITO): Let's get down to business, I only have an hour and a half.

Odracir (TITO): Finally.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Hello

Gamia (INDEP): Greetings, Gen Powell

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Good morning, everyone.

skywalker1 (INDEP): well at least we started to agree then on something

Gamia (INDEP): Good good

Gen Powell (Co-Host) joined the chat 105 minutes ago

Odracir (TITO): He should be here soon then.

skywalker1 (INDEP): the general is on the GS forum

Odracir (TITO): We agreed on a few issues, but there is still a lot to be done.

skywalker1 (INDEP): How did things go last week any ways, wasn't able to make it.

Odracir (TITO): Yeah, the General was a fun guy last week, but he's another person in front of his men.

Gamia (INDEP): I got it, don't worry

Odracir (TITO): That's where TITO is based in case you didn't get the joke.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Doesn't even look like Heights is on either.

Gamia (INDEP): Naw, I'm just kidding. Y'know, it's entertaining how much I like you defenders OOC, but in the game you're my enemies

Odracir (TITO): Sure, you guys are welcome in the 10000 Islands.

Odracir (TITO): Sure, you guys are welcome in the 10000 Islands.

Odracir (TITO): He better hurry.

Gamia (INDEP): Hm. I think, in protest of their lateness, we should all join one giant alliance, just to spite them.

skywalker1 (INDEP): He hasn't been on NS for 21 hrs. atleast his main nation

Odracir (TITO): Where is the General?

Odracir (TITO): lol

Gamia (INDEP): Heh. I don't plan an messing with you guys Odracir. Scary bunch, ya'll are

skywalker1 (INDEP): lol well see's how much I know.

Odracir (TITO): We're starting to get publicity, since we are at war with DEN.

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Odracir (TITO): lol. Starting to gain power? We've been around since last year.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Not much all I know is that it is a defender alliance that is starting to gain power.

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[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): We are concerned, however, with the use of this practice to influence internal politics.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): On behalf of the WAR and IAN alliances, I can state that we value espionage as a valuable military tool.

skywalker1 (INDEP): That is all I have to say on the matter for now.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Or shall I say Domination of the World. We all think we know if we didn't have espionage that it would be the end of us.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Go on.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Go one.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): You have the floor, Delegate Skywalker1.

skywalker1 (INDEP): As you all know from the Global Summit Forum, I completly disagree w/ this proposal.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Yes

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Comment, Delegate Skywalker1?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Sorry about that, Delegate Gamia. I did not mean to interrupt you.

Gamia (INDEP): Sorry. I'm done

Gamia (INDEP): We all use intelligence gathering at some level and to cut it off would be a deathknelll for any new military organizations

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Your have the floor, Delegate Skywalker1

skywalker1 (INDEP) returned to the chat 93 minutes ago

skywalker1 (INDEP) left the chat 93 minutes ago

Gamia (INDEP): Ah. Thank you

Odracir (TITO): The General knows of what I'm talking about, and that is good enough for now. I'm sure you'll find out before this is over.

Gamia (INDEP): It's impossible to enforce any restricitions, and furthermore, it is neccesary for all organizations to continue operations

Gamia (INDEP): While he does that, I'd like to say that I echo the decisions of TITO in terms of espionage

Odracir (TITO): Hold on, let me think of an answer.

Gamia (INDEP): First, could I ask Delegate Odracir what developments he speaks of?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Delegate Gamia, you have the floor.

Odracir (TITO): That is all.

Odracir (TITO): However, we are troubled by this week's developments.

Odracir (TITO): Also, espionage benefits both sides involved, and respect DEN's right to do it.

Odracir (TITO): The Council voted against the espionage issue in any way, since it is not enforceable.

Odracir (TITO): We agreed that invading is a legal issue, but is not fair or right or moral.

Odracir (TITO): The Council agreed to cease all name calling, with the exception of immoral, and DEN may call us hall monitors.

Odracir (TITO): As of the last conference, the Council of Nine, the governing body of the 10000 Islands discussed the issues we discussed at the last summit.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): You have the floor, Delegate Odracir.

Odracir (TITO): OK.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That's correct.

Odracir (TITO): I get first go right?

Gamia (INDEP): Sorry

Odracir (TITO): Fine.

[General Powell]

Blackbird (RLA): Pardon me for being unfamilar with this issue, but are you speaking of a specific nation under allegations by TITO?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That's correct., Delegate Odracir. But I think Founder Grub has a reason for keeping this nation in 10K.

Odracir (TITO): And it's still in TITO.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): No. That was the consequence of the identification. This nation still resides in 10K, though.

Odracir (TITO): Is it still a DEN operative?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Not at all, Delegate Blackbird.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This was confirmation of the accuracy of the identification.

Blackbird (RLA): Well...perhaps we ought to invite them? Do we lose anything by broadening this summit?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): In response to Delegate Odracir, I can state that other information regarding this nation's activities was provided.

Blackbird (RLA): Ah yes.

Odracir (TITO): The non-UN region thing.

Blackbird (RLA): They were discussed? In what context was this?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Actually, I think the Meritocracy was discussed during the last meeting. They were not sent a specific invitation.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Understood.

Blackbird (RLA): By the way, if I may say so, has an invitation been given to the Meritocracy, to bring up a different topic?

Odracir (TITO): Very true, but how can we be sure that you aren't trying to influence our elections by getting that nation booted?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Founder Grub knew nothing of this.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Remember how this nation's identity came to be known, Delegate Odracir. That is proof of DEN's good faith in this matter.

Gamia (INDEP): I suppose Delegate Odracir does raise a good point

Blackbird (RLA): Had we not come to an agreement about this?

Odracir (TITO): It affects everyone. How can we know they're good on their word if they don't clear their name of this first?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This is why it has been raised here.

Odracir (TITO): How can they claim that they are going to cease non-military espionage?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I think this matter affects all delegates.

Gamia (INDEP): Yes

Blackbird (RLA): We are still talking about espionage and such?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I can send you the PM if you log in, Delegate Odracir.

Gamia (INDEP): Heh

skywalker1 (INDEP): That is just what I finished typing

Odracir (TITO): They are contradicting theirselves.

Gamia (INDEP): The issue at hand is one of a generalized ban on non-military espionage

Gamia (INDEP): Gentlemen (I assume), perhaps we should take these discussions of personal cases of espionage to a different time, where TITO and DEN can discuss these at their liesure

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I noticed (LOL.)

Odracir (TITO): Send me a PM in the GS forum with the nation's name.

Blackbird (RLA): Thank you General Powell. *chuckles* I thought it was yesterday.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): We are discussing the espionage issue again.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Hello

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Greetings, Delegate Blackbird. Welcome back to the Summit.

Gamia (INDEP): Greetings

Gen Powell (Co-Host): And the nation is still in 10K

Blackbird (RLA): Greetings.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I can, Delegate Odracir, but this is a sensitive issue to Founder Grub.

Odracir (TITO): The one in our region, trying to get into our Council of Nine.

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Odracir (TITO): If you can do that I can.

Odracir (TITO): Only if you name the nation to which I'm refering.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Can you speak freely of this, Delegate Odracir?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Consistent with WAR and IAN's position on this matter, we terminate activities.

Odracir (TITO): They say otherwise.

Odracir (TITO): Were you made aware by your leadership of this week's developments?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): No.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): As you know, I only recently become aware of this.

Odracir (TITO): Is it doing so now?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): DEN was attempting to infiltrate 10K's leadership, Delegate Odracir.

Odracir (TITO): Has/Is DEN trying to get spies in the Council of Nine?

Odracir (TITO): Especially regarding regional leadership roles.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): DEN has engaged in internal surveillance of 10K since the first mission in ALH.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Spies and sleeper cells should not vote on internal political matters, either.

Gamia (INDEP): Understood

Odracir (TITO): What can you say about DEN's non-military espionage practices in the 10000 Islands?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Yes. Espionage should not be used to seek regional leadership positions or affect recruiting efforts.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This is why we wish to do away with all non-military espionage.

Gamia (INDEP): Could you be clearer on what you mean by that, Delegate Powell. In terms of internal politics?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I believe Delegate Odracir can understand this better than anyone, given the recent events discussed with Field Commander Arfon and Founder Grub.

[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): And if it is violated, the mods can deal with it as an NS violation.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): It can be enforced if everyone keeps their word.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Regional leadership would have to refrain from planting operatives and sleeper cells for non-military intelligence gathering.

Odracir (TITO): We have great intelligence, we don't have counter-intelligence.

skywalker1 (INDEP): I agree. There should be limits, but there is no way we can control this.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That is why WAR and IAN proposed banning all non-military espionage.

Blackbird (RLA): Well Odracir, I would recommend, if your counter-intelliencei s not where it should be, perhaps to make alliances with those who have decent intelligence.

Gamia (INDEP): I mean, let's be honest. We've all come to the conclusion that stopping espionage is nigh-impossible. Let's work on how to keep it to sane levels

Odracir (TITO): I admit that our counter-intelligence isn't where it should be right now.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Well said, Delegate Gamia.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): He was one of your most trusted nations, Delegate Odracir. That is why he was recruited following the first ALH mission.

Gamia (INDEP): Odracir: Isn't that just an intelligence failure of TITO, however?

Odracir (TITO): I'm troubled at how easily he made it to the top with no problem.

Gamia (INDEP): Delegate Arfon *tips hat*

Blackbird (RLA): Or Welcome back, pardon me.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Welcome

Gamia (INDEP): Hehehe

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Welcome back, Delegate Arfon.

Blackbird (RLA): Welcome arfon.

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Blackbird (RLA): Isn't taking over the world a little cliche though, at this point?

arfon (EAA Delegate) joined the chat 69 minutes ago

Gen Powell (Co-Host): No. This former operative is an independent player, Delegate Odracir. He was recruiting from amongst your ranks.

Gamia (INDEP): Indeed. Very kind of Mr. Salai to do that

Blackbird (RLA): Ah, well, I knew who the GRD was. I saw your mission statement posted at the NSI not just an hour or ago or so.

Gamia (INDEP): Plus, we're not defenders or invaders, so...

Odracir (TITO): Is it a puppet of a DEN nation though?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): LOL

Gen Powell (Co-Host): BY a senior DEN officer...

Gamia (INDEP): @ Blackbird: Well, Gen Powell here didn't want me to be GRD, 'cause nobody would know who that was.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Yes, but a senior DEN officer.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): TITO has valid concerns about espionage, and its impact on internal politics.

Odracir (TITO): By a high ranking DEN native.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This nation's identity was compromised this week.

Blackbird (RLA): Ah, are you here in an unofficial manner then, just looking at your tag next to your name?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Just for clarification, delegates, DEN has recruited a current member of 10K to act as an intelligence operative. This nation worked its way up the regional leadership chain and is among the circle of the most trusted nations in 10K and TITO.

Gamia (INDEP): I am its founder and high commander

Blackbird (RLA): Gamia, are you a member of the GRD, then?

Odracir (TITO): Is the nation a puppet nation of a DEN memer?

skywalker1 (INDEP): Likewise

Gamia (INDEP): No, I just check it out periodically. Byzantium is currently under the protection of the GRD

Gen Powell (Co-Host): CTW=CRASH THE WORLD, for those who don't know.

Blackbird (RLA): It's a pleasure.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I surely would, Delegate Odracir. That is why I stated I would have immediately ejected this nation.

skywalker1 (INDEP): I am from Domination of the World, and a member of CTW.

Blackbird (RLA): Yes, I've been there. Do you have a different name there?

Gamia (INDEP): Nice to meet you Blackbird. I've seen you around the Byzantine forums

Odracir (TITO): Looking at our past between the two regions, wouldn't you still be suspicious of the nation?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Ah. I see your concern, Delegate Odracir. Remember that the operative was placed long before the GS was even considered.

Blackbird (RLA): Ah, Delegates skywalker1 and Gamia, I don't belive we've had the pleasure. I am Blackbird, of The Proletariat Coalition and the Red Liberty Alliance.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Even Founder Grub would have to agree that discontinuing this practice is for everyone's benefit.

Odracir (TITO): That's the problem. How can we claim a ban and then go out and try to get a sleeper in our government?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Correct, Delegate Skywalker1.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): If I had been made aware of the information Founder Grub received, I would have immediately ejected the nation.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Ok so this is just an example of what we are trying to bann?

Blackbird (RLA): Thank you.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): For the benefit of all delegates, we are talking about a former DEN operative that was highly placed in TITO and 10K.

Odracir (TITO): Well yeah, but he also has reason to boot it don't you think?

[General Powell]

Gamia (INDEP): This is quickly breaking down into DEN vs. TITO negotiations...

Blackbird (RLA): Pardon me Odracir, but I was not suggesting alliances or anything of the sort, merely only informal exchanges of information and disrourse, perhaps regarding this nation that so much conerns you.

Odracir (TITO): I'll talk to Grub about it again though, since the idea was tossed around. I'll tell him you brought it up again.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This was in response to Founder Grub's improper deletion by the mods.

Odracir (TITO): @ Blackbird: Specific orders from Grub, no alliances or agreements with other defenders, only DEN and its allies.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I was mod bombed because of a TITO nation, Delegate Odracir. My nation was deleted as a favor to Founder Grub from Mod Hack.

Odracir (TITO): If you were mod bombed because of a TITO nation, would you not be a bit more reserved in all agreements with TITO?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): DEN has no operatives in 10K or TITO. That is a fact.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Absolutely not, Delegate Odracir. It would make no sense whatsoever to rely upon an operative whose identity has been compromised.

Blackbird (RLA): Perhaps the Delgate from TITO would be intersting in conferring with other defenders regarding this issue?

Odracir (TITO): I know, I know. But I have to know before I can submit it to the Council, is it still an operative. Please be honest.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This is a clear indication of WAR and IAN's good faith effort regarding a ban to non-military espionage.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): You have to remember, once again, how the operative's ID came to be known.

Gamia (INDEP): Woah...I never heard this....

Odracir (TITO): We have already agreed to the name calling issue and the legality of invading.

Odracir (TITO): When you pull something like that, we are going to be a bit more reserved.

Gamia (INDEP): Delegates Odracir and Powell, I understand both of your points. But for Mr. Odracir: We must have some trust in this process or nothing will be accomplished

Odracir (TITO): We were concerned when DEN tried to kill Grub.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): The operative that you are concerned about was placed in TITO long before the GS was even contemplated.

Odracir (TITO): Goodbye Skywalker.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I am concerned about TITO's approach to this, respectfully, Delgate Odracir.

Odracir (TITO): However, I think we all agree that calling us Hall Monitors has a different effect than having more than 10% of our regional government.

Blackbird (RLA): Until later Delegate.

Gamia (INDEP): Delegate Skywalker. Good bye

Gen Powell (Co-Host): See you then, Delegate Skywalker1.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Yes. An invitation was delivered to Mod Cogitation, and posted in the NS Forum's Mod chamber.

skywalker1 (INDEP): Sorry everyone, I have to go to church. Be Back in a hour and a half if there still is debate.

Blackbird (RLA): invitation*

Odracir (TITO): We have laready agreed to the name calling issue, and the legality of invading.

Blackbird (RLA): Was an inviation sent out to the Mods subsequent to last meeting as requested?

skywalker1 (INDEP): That is the way I'm viewing it.

Gamia (INDEP): Delegate Powell...

Odracir (TITO): Yes we will.

Blackbird (RLA): Then, the Council of Nine, by this logic, will not agree to anything we reach!

Gamia (INDEP): By all means

Gen Powell (Co-Host): May I respond, Delegates?

Odracir (TITO): The Council of Nine felt that the mods won't care about this, and that it is completely unenforceable, and given the past actions of DEN, we have no reason to trust them in an unenforceable accord.

Odracir (TITO): Hmmm.

Odracir (TITO): Sure.

Blackbird (RLA): Could the Delegate from TITO perhaps shed some light on the reasoning so that perhaps the agreement could be amended so as to be favorable to the Nine?

skywalker1 (INDEP): Sorry, What I ment was that the majority might agree but some what. Sorry TITO.

Gamia (INDEP): Hmm....that kinda puts a lock on discussion here, Odracir

Gamia (INDEP): Well, that's not too much of a problem, Skywalker. Think of this like the RL Geneva Convention. To get any respect in the world, organizations would have to sign this

Blackbird (RLA): *chuckles* Personally, I would not characterize TITO as small.

Odracir (TITO): TITO will not concede a ban on espionage in any way. It's not my choice, we had a vote in the Council of Nine.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): TITO of all organizations should now appreciate why this ban is important, Delegate Odracir. I don't understand why Founder Grub and the Council has rejected this limitatation. Can you shed light on this?

skywalker1 (INDEP): See this is what we would get. We can't get everyone to agree to it. The big regions might agree but the small factions might not.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This Accord is being submitted to the mods as a supllement to the NS raid rules currently being debated in the NS Forum.

Blackbird (RLA): The Delegate from TITO will not concede to a ban on non-military espionage?

Odracir (TITO): In any way I forgot to add.

Odracir (TITO): TITO disagrees and will not participate in any ban on espionage.

Gamia (INDEP): With all due respect, General Powell, how would the mods do that?

skywalker1 (INDEP): Yes, I see.

[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): But it was raised by the EAA.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This issue really should apply to both defender and raider operations.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): ISSUE: Discussion of alleged NS infractions by defender organizations prior to the filing of mod reports.

Gamia (INDEP): Yes

Blackbird (RLA): There is nothing prohibiting intelligence gathering of military or intelligence nature.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Very well. Let's table the espionage issue and take on the next question.

equility(ADN/Equilism): Greetings

Blackbird (RLA): DD, we are speaking of sleeper cells trying to subvert governments and such, things on the civil side.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Welcome to the GS, Delegate Equility.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Welcome equility!

equility(ADN/Equilism) joined the chat 46 minutes ago

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Espionage is, I believe, a necessary activity for all of us. Even non-military.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): WAR and the IAN wish to ban all non-military espionage.

Gamia (INDEP): The GRD is currently undecided on the issue. We are concious that banning non-military espionage may make acheiving our goals of world peace difficult

Blackbird (RLA): The RLA is willing to consider the ban on non-military espionage.

Odracir (TITO): I'll just watch if you all want to agree on this issue.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): question?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): For the record, what is the position of the other alliances and independents on the espionage question.

Gamia (INDEP): Let's move on

Odracir (TITO): My hands are indeed tied.

Gamia (INDEP): Yes

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Seems to be the case

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Just for clarification, Delegates, are we at a standstill on the espionage issue?

Gamia (INDEP): Aye. Let's put this off until later. It appears that Delegate Odracir's hands are tied at this point

Gamia (INDEP): Thank you, sir

Blackbird (RLA): I believe, as I recall, that there is a host of issues and proposals, at least, so I see from what I recall of the original proposals.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That was for the benefit of the GRD, Delegate Odracir.

Odracir (TITO): ?

Odracir (TITO): Any other issue that the other delegates want to see addressed.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That means that operatives cannot secure leadership positions in the target region, and cannot attempt to affect the internal politics of the target regioni in any way.

Gamia (INDEP): Greetings, Democratic Donkeys

Gamia (INDEP): Since TITO can't agree to anything yet, why don't we shelve this until another time?

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes sorry i'm late

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Greetings, Delegate Donkeys. Welcome back to the Summit.

Blackbird (RLA): Greetings to Democratic Donkey!

Blackbird (RLA): Well then, perhaps we can table this issue.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): The recommendation from the last meeting was that all non-military espionage would be banned.

Odracir (TITO): I don't have the authority to enter this agreement on behalf of TITO, since the Council voted against it.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN) joined the chat 50 minutes ago

Gamia (INDEP): GRD was not part of the original agreement, and would like to hear it spelled out before we agree to it

Gen Powell (Co-Host): As does WAR and IAN

Blackbird (RLA): The RLA stands by the original agreement.

Gamia (INDEP): Or should we table this until another time, when various organizational leaders are contacted?

Odracir (TITO): I would hate to see strained negotiations between TITO and other defenders.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I would ask, for the benefit of all represented alliances and independents, that we try and reach an agreement regarding espionage that we can all abide by.

Gamia (INDEP): ?

Gamia (INDEP): So can we come to any kind of an agreement about this espiionage issue at hand

Blackbird (RLA): This is good to know. I have always looked favorably on TITO, and I'm glad this is no change of policy.

Odracir (TITO): Sounds good.

Gamia (INDEP): Thanks you Delegate Powell

Odracir (TITO): And we are grateful for that.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Your point is well taken, Delegate Gamia. If there is something specific that Founder Grub would like to negotiate with DEN, he may wish to speak directly with Gen Asgarn.

Odracir (TITO): We don't feel you are worthless. There have been many a battle where we won because of help from other defenders.

Blackbird (RLA): I assume that TITO intends to sign whatever agreement we reach, regardless of the fact that other defenders are involved. I find it discouraging that TITO feels other defenders so worthless.

Odracir (TITO): I'll talk to Grub about it.

[General Powell]

Gamia (INDEP): He is one of the few neutral bodies on NationStates

Gen Powell (Co-Host): A wonderful suggestion, Delegate Gamia!

Gamia (INDEP): Have we considered talking to Mr. Salai, of the NSI?

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): I believe if any discussion were to be had it should be carried out through TG or possibly the exchange of IM

Blackbird (RLA): Indeed, the RLA has been similarly reluctant.

equility(ADN/Equilism): heh

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I do, Delegate DD.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): LOL

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, well you'll have to excuse my reluctance to sign up to a DEN forum...

Gamia (INDEP): Heh

Blackbird (RLA): The DEN does.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Perhaps the ADN would like to do this, so there is no issue of using IP scans as part of espionage activites (LOL.)

Blackbird (RLA): Farewall Delegate Odracir.

Gamia (INDEP): Who would run such a forum?

equility(ADN/Equilism): Goodday Odracir

Gen Powell (Co-Host): We can have a joint forum created.

Gamia (INDEP): Goodbye Delegate Odracir

Odracir (TITO): Bye,

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Roger that, Delegate Odracir. Thank You for coming.

Gamia (INDEP): Where is this forum?

Blackbird (RLA): There is a joint forum I believe.

Odracir (TITO): I have to go to work. Telegram me with what you agreed to while I was gone, and I'll bring it before the Council of Nine.

equility(ADN/Equilism): I don't agree, moderators are people and make mistakes, but I would not call them trigger happy

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Telegrams and posts on the RMB of the target region work best.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Exactly, Delegate Odracir. And to respond to Delegate Gamia, we can address much of what is believed to be violations during the actual operation.

Odracir (TITO): They drool when they see a shady call to mod-bomb someone with.

Gamia (INDEP): How do we facilitate these discussions? Create a joint forum?

Odracir (TITO): The mods are trigger happy, we all know that.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): If the defender and raiders involved in an operation discuss this issue first, it will help prevent the questionable response of the mods.

Gamia (INDEP): But then how do we, as only players, understand these things?

Odracir (TITO): I agree.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): It is not always clear whether a violation has in fact occurred.

Odracir (TITO): Good, then I'll bring it before the Council of Nine.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): If I may, I would like to join Delegate Odracir's opinion on this matter on behalf of WAR and IAN.

Odracir (TITO): Because your leader wasn't killed.

Gamia (INDEP): Words outta my mouth, Blackbird...

Blackbird (RLA): I certainly understand that we might think of something as a "shady call", but the RLA is not to judge a ruling of the Mods.

equility(ADN/Equilism): I concur with my collegue Blackbird

Gamia (INDEP): I guess I really don't see the problem here. I'm a little confused about this issue. If someone broke the rules, then the Mods can deal out a judgement

Blackbird (RLA): I do not understand exactly why this is an issue. If there was an alleged rule infraction, a report is filed, and the Mods mete out their justice as they wish.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Let's allow...

Odracir (TITO): If the rules were broken or not. Both Grub and the General have been mod-bombed because of a shady call.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Let's all the RLA and the independents to offer comment first, please.

equility(ADN/Equilism): May I react?

Gamia (INDEP): What do we need to discuss, Delegate Odracir?

Odracir (TITO): Yes there is.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, there is no need for discussion

Odracir (TITO): I agree to discussion of NS rules violations and will bring this before the Council of Nine, where it will surely pass. Also, it is not always clear if a rule is broken or not, as both Grub and the General can attest to.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): You have the floor, Delegate Odracir.

equility(ADN/Equilism): DD?

equility(ADN/Equilism): I have nothing more to add

Odracir (TITO): Is the ADN done?

Democratic Donkeys (ADN) joined the chat 40 minutes ago

equility(ADN/Equilism): As it is often clear if a rule is broken or not

equility(ADN/Equilism): Indeed, I'm just saying, I don't see any use of speaking with the other side before we file the report

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Absolutely, rules are required for all sides. When someone breaks them they should be punished

Blackbird (RLA): Everyone understands that we are but Delegates.

equility(ADN/Equilism): But my personal opinion is that if rules are broken then I don't see why reporting should not be allowed

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes

equility(ADN/Equilism): Well first of all we can't speak in name of the whole ADN

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Then the host

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Then independents

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Then RLA

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Then TITO

Gen Powell (Co-Host): ADN has the floor.

Odracir (TITO): Sounds fair.

[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): But ALH was lost to TITO, GLA and the RRA by that point.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): The mod confirmed all that I have told you, and reinstated RS' nation.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): When you don't remove that nation from the ban list

Gen Powell (Co-Host): And when have you ever heard a single ejection constituting a griefing?

Gamia (INDEP): DD does have a point. Powell

Gen Powell (Co-Host): No question. But DELETION?

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): But still against the rules.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): RS' nation was near the 500 million make at that point.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): No other natives were ejected, and the mistake was an innocent one.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): RS was deleted within 24 hours of the acquisition, the password cleared and the mission labelled a "griefing."

Gen Powell (Co-Host): RS forgot to remove the old delegate from the ban list.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): He immediately sent the new password to all natives and the ejected delegate (who had been inactive for nearly a week.)

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Our chosen delegate, Rarely Steamboats, evicted a single nation--the native delegate.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): DEN had acquired the region of A Liberal Haven several weeks ago.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): For a quick example:

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Because little issues lead to nation deletion in the hands of the mods, Delegate Equility.

Gamia (INDEP): I think the contention is between "little" mod reports and "not-so-little" mod reports

equility(ADN/Equilism): but that's my opinion

equility(ADN/Equilism): Well that may be so, but I can't really see the use of this issue, I don't think it has any use to discuss every litlle mod report on a forum

Gamia (INDEP): Can we conclude discussion on this point then?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Agreed, Delegate DD. if the player accused can't make the effort to respond to the accusation, then file the mod report.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): You might be surprised, Delegate Equility. The purpose of the GS Summit is to lay out ground rules which we, as players, can agree to maintain. The accord we reach will be presented as a supplement to the ongoing debate on raider rules in the NS Forum.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Just so "I wasn't able to get on to discuss" isn't a valid excuse

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, that's why I asked that

equility(ADN/Equilism): I don't see all groups keeping to this anyway

Gamia (INDEP): Sounds good to me

Gen Powell (Co-Host): It would, Delegate DD.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This will be important for new raider and defender alliances coming into the game, and will prevent much heartache owing to N00B1E violations.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): If discussion ocurred on a rule infraction and nobody came on to discuss it would the report be filed by default?

Blackbird (RLA): If this is agreed on, have we another issue?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Some will be clear, others will not. But we would agree to address this as players in the neutral forum prior to the report.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Neither do I. But if it become common practice then we'll have to adapt.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): This is designed to filter which allegations become mod reports, Delegate Equility.

equility(ADN/Equilism): unless it's unclear if a rule is broken or not

equility(ADN/Equilism): Yes, but I don't see the use of discussing mod reports.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, I agree. Equility?

Blackbird (RLA): I find Mr Salai most agreeable.

Gamia (INDEP): GRD agrees

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Are we in tentative agreement, delegates? With the proviso that the ADN must receive further information on the NSI before recommending this to their governing council?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I apologize if I didn't, Delegate Blackbird. I had mentioned this was proposed by the defenders, but not as specifically.

Blackbird (RLA): Ah, had you said this before we bagan, it would have been most enlightening.

Gamia (INDEP): As long as Mr. Salai would protect our IPs

Gamia (INDEP): As would the GRD

Gen Powell (Co-Host): When this issue was first presented, it was presented by the EAA and TITO as a request to have alleged defender violations reviewed "in house" before getting the mods involved. WAR and IAN believes this should apply to all alleged violations. We would be agreeable to the neutral forum concept.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, absolutely. We'd need to see if he is neutral before we willing surrnder our IPs

equility(ADN/Equilism): Sounds as a good plan to me

Blackbird (RLA): Is that idea amenable to the ADN? That is, requesting information?

Gamia (INDEP): Ah.

Blackbird (RLA): A branch of the Meritorcracy.

Gamia (INDEP): MIA? I am unfamiliar with them

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): That would be nice

Blackbird (RLA): You could request info from them, if you wished for a more, detailed report.

Blackbird (RLA): The MIA most likely has a file on him, he tried to join.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): That's correct, Delegate Blackbird.

Gamia (INDEP): And is doing a wonderful job, I may add

equility(ADN/Equilism): Well I know that website, I don't know the person behind the site

Gen Powell (Co-Host): NSI is taking over where the radio nations left off in NS.

Blackbird (RLA): Nuetral enough. He was a member of the Sons of Liberty.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): So I don't know how truly neutral he is

Blackbird (RLA): I know him.

Gamia (INDEP): www.freewebs.com/protocol101/

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes neither do I

equility(ADN/Equilism): So I can't really say

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Would the delegates be amenable to having the NSI create a neutral forum to address alleged violations before filing mod reports?

equility(ADN/Equilism): I don't know them

Gamia (INDEP): Anyone disagree with this idea? We could run it past him...

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Agreed.

[General Powell]

Gen Powell (Co-Host): And you, Delegate DD. Remember to save a copy for your records.

Blackbird (RLA) left the chat 32 seconds ago

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes thank you Powell.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): If there is nothing further, we may officially call the 2004 Global Summit on Raiderplay and Defender Operations to a close.

Gamia (INDEP) left the chat 63 seconds ago

Gamia (INDEP): And to you

Blackbird (RLA): Good day to you all.

Blackbird (RLA): It's a pleasure to welcome the newer the organizations into the fold.

Gamia (INDEP): Agreed and thanks again

Gen Powell (Co-Host): It was my pleasure. All NS players are important, Delegate Gamia. We appreciate you being here.

Gamia (INDEP): And thanks for allowing schmucks like me and my little org into these grand debates

Gamia (INDEP): Thank you for the hard work on this, hosts

Blackbird (RLA): I thank the hosts *tips his hat*.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): It has been a productive couple of weeks, gentlemen.

Blackbird (RLA): Returning, I am equally pleased.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I certainly agree, Delegate Gamia, and appreciate the participation of so many regions and alliances.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): summit2004.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Remember the password to the GS Summit and GS Summit II is:

Gamia (INDEP): Excellent. As a newcomer, I'd say we had a good discussion today, Delegates

Gen Powell (Co-Host): We will also leave this forum up for everyone's use and review.

Blackbird (RLA): Indeed.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Absolutely. I think the neutral forum or the regions of GS Summit and GS Summit II would prove useful for this.

Gamia (INDEP): Well, that's pleasant! Any other issues that we can bring up at a later time debate?

Gen Powell (Co-Host): We have tentative agreement on all issues expect espionage.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Actually this was the final issue to be addressed, Delegate Gamia.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Yes, I have a time limit as well

Gamia (INDEP): I'm not seeing any debate here? Can we move on? (Sorry about the insistance, but I've gotta get out of here soon)

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Rules that all of WAR and IAN are willing to abide by, as well.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Absolutely, DD. It would have saved us a considerable amount of heartache, and would have shown both the natives and defenders that DEN plays by the rules.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): In that case, we would have simply removed the former delegate from the ban list.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): We could have made you aware of your error. Even though it was really your repsonsibility

Gen Powell (Co-Host): Precisely.

Gamia (INDEP): So I think this is a fine idea, this neutral forum

Gamia (INDEP): Exactly

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): If we had a forum for discussion I suppose the whole issue could've been avoided.

Gen Powell (Co-Host): I am more inclined to believe that the mod realized that he had overreacted, Delegate DD.

Democratic Donkeys (ADN): Looks like you got a pretty nice mod.